Terry McGuire is an award-winning journalist and news anchor turned mental health and hope advocate. The Giving Voice to Depression podcast that she created and cohosts has been downloaded more than 2.5 million times, and ranks in the top 1% of global podcasts.
Terry McGuire is an award-winning journalist and news anchor turned mental health and hope advocate. The Giving Voice to Depression podcast that she created and cohosts has been downloaded more than 2.5 million times, and ranks in the top 1% of global podcasts.
This article summarizes a conversation from the Giving Voice to Depression podcast, hosted by Terry McGuire. In this episode, Terry is joined by co-host Dr. Anita Sanz and special guest Dr. David Jacobi of Rogers Behavioral Health. Together, they explore the transformative power of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for people struggling with depression, anxiety, and other mental health conditions.
Dr. Jacobi outlines CBT’s foundational ideas and shares strategies that help individuals challenge distorted thinking patterns and re-engage with life through behavioral activation. If you’re feeling stuck in depression or want to support someone who is, this episode offers hopeful, real-world-tested tools that can guide the way forward.
CBT is built on the principle that thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are deeply interconnected. When someone is struggling with depression, all three can spiral together in a negative loop.
Dr. Jacobi explained:
Cognitive behavior therapy: you can think of it as a triangle… emotions, thoughts, and behaviors at the points… There’s an interplay between these three facets. It’s very difficult to change an emotion directly… but we can look at the thoughts and begin to see if those really reflect me or others… or we can look at behavior: What can I do differently?
Key takeaway: Rather than trying to change your mood directly, target your thoughts and behaviors first. Small shifts in either can start a ripple effect that improves your emotional state.
When we’re depressed, doing anything at all can feel impossible. But behavioral activation—choosing to do something even when you don’t feel like it—is one of the most effective steps you can take.
As Dr. Jacobi emphasized:
The behavioral part… really does seem to be the more powerful component of that cognitive behavioral model. To see myself doing something different… that’s what we call behavioral activation.
Behavioral activation is the practice of engaging with life again—bit by bit—even if your motivation is low. Doing something different tells your brain, “I’m not helpless,” and that message can be incredibly healing.
Avoidance is a natural but unhelpful response to pain. Whether it’s skipping social events, ignoring responsibilities, or withdrawing emotionally, avoidance provides short-term relief but maintains depression in the long run.
As Dr. Jacobi noted:
When people are feeling like that… they engage in what we call avoidance patterns… staying away from things… But there’s no opportunity to get any good, rewarding feelings from engaging with life.
Avoidance keeps the cycle of sadness and hopelessness going. The alternative? Active coping—taking one small step toward the situation instead of away from it.
Rather than retreating, CBT teaches people to try active coping strategies. This doesn’t mean pretending everything is fine. It means asking yourself, “What can I do about this situation?”
For example:
Dr. Jacobi illustrated the contrast:
The process of being active helps me. I feel better when I’m out doing, when I am trying to improve myself or problem-solve my situation.
These shifts empower you to reclaim some agency over your life.
To get the most out of behavioral activation, Dr. Jacobi suggests incorporating three types of activities into your routine:
By planning one activity from each category, you create structure and purpose—even if you’re starting small.
When you’re deep in depression, even minor actions can feel overwhelming. That’s why the size of the action doesn’t matter—what matters is doing something.
Dr. Sanz shared:
Many times, I have asked my clients who are in a very severe depressive episode to just make a commitment to move from their bed to the couch… it’s a step that you wouldn ’t think you should get a lot of credit for, but it is the beginning of making the change, of doing something different.
Don’t wait to feel motivated—act first, and let motivation follow.
As Dr. Jacobi advised:
I just want you to make a commitment to say, I’m going to try them… even though I may not feel all that much better. I’m still doing something active.
CBT can be done on your own, but having accountability helps. Whether it’s a therapist, support group, or a friend, having someone cheer you on can provide the encouragement needed to stick with new habits.
Dr. Jacobi explained:
It is nice to have someone to support you… to cheer you on, applaud your successes. I think they can be really powerful in this process of getting well and staying well.
If you’re supporting someone else, remember that encouragement is key—but avoid enabling depressive behavior.
While it’s natural to want to relieve a loved one’s pain, too much accommodation can actually prevent recovery.
As Dr. Jacobi explained:
It’s very well-intended behaviors on the part of the family to alleviate their loved one’s distress… Unfortunately, what’s happening there is, inadvertently, the loved one is really reinforcing what we would call a depressed behavior, right? The avoidance, the isolation, the not being activated.
Instead, use empathy and gentle encouragement.
I want to validate, I wanna show that I support, that I understand and empathize with your experience. Having said that, I also want to encourage activation.
CBT is powerful, but it’s not the only approach. For some people, medication can create enough stability to begin doing the work CBT requires.
Dr. Jacobi stated:
To me, it’s another tool in the toolbox… it allows them to be able to do the behavioral activation… to engage with life.
If you need medication, it doesn’t mean you’re weak. It means you’re using every resource available to fight your depression.
There’s no one-size-fits-all solution to depression. What matters most is consistency—challenging your thoughts, doing helpful behaviors, leaning into support, and sticking with it long enough to see a change.
As Dr. Jacobi noted:
There’s lots of different components to getting well and staying well… there’s going to be multiple things… that lead to someone being able to manage their depression and then stay healthy.
Even on your hardest days, remember that small wins matter.
As Terry eloquently put it:
Something like a shower can sound very small, but the people who are really in it, that is a huge thing and it can shift everything.
One of the most powerful themes in this episode is that you don’t need to wait for a breakthrough or a burst of energy to begin healing. You don’t need to feel like doing something before you do it. You just need to do one small thing differently—and that, in itself, is progress.
As Dr. Sanz so wisely said:
Some of the most effective ways out of it is the help that you’re going to give to yourself.
CBT invites us to stop focusing only on what we feel and instead focus on what we can do. Depression tells us we’re helpless, but action—even tiny action—challenges that lie. If you showered today, replied to a text, or sat up instead of laying down, those are not insignificant acts. They are proof that you’re trying. And that matters.
You’re not lazy. You’re not broken. You’re not alone. And you’re not stuck forever.
This episode is a reminder that healing is often quiet, gradual, and invisible at first—but it begins with a choice: to do something different, no matter how small. Trust the process. Trust yourself. You’ve got this.
If you’re short on time, here are the core insights from this episode:
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